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Post by matfive2 on Dec 3, 2009 13:58:01 GMT -5
mikestack, I understand your points about smaller bands, but I have some friends in bands, and they routinely give copies of their CDs away for free at shows, just for the "word of mouth" crowd. I'm not saying your wrong. I'm just saying that there are two sides to every coin. And your viewpoint is but one side. I'm not sure if they have done any studies, but I would bet money that overall an artist would generate more revenue due to pirating because of increased exposure.
An Example: Lets say 10 people buy a CD for $10 ($100 profit to the artist) Lets say another 10 people download the CD illegally for free Of the 10 people that illegally downloaded the CD, lets say 3 like the music so much they decide to buy the CD at $10 ($30 additional dollars profit to the artist).
So without pirating, the artist makes $100, and with pirating the artist makes $130.
You may not believe that the last part occurs, but it does, its happens to me all the time. I DL something, I listen to it, I like it, I buy the CD. If I don't like the DL, I just delete it. Better than wasting $15 on something without ever being able to hear it prior to purchase.
I fail to see how that it is a bad thing for the small artist. The people that are already fans of the artist will attend shows/purchase CDs of smaller acts because they want to support the artist. And hopefully the people that are DLing the CD will purchase a CD by the artist in the future.
Just my 2 cents........
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Post by mikestack on Dec 3, 2009 23:22:27 GMT -5
So I promised to cease hijacking this thread, but I find this a fascinating subject to discuss.... mikestack, I understand your points about smaller bands, but I have some friends in bands, and they routinely give copies of their CDs away for free at shows, just for the "word of mouth" crowd. I'm not saying your wrong. I'm just saying that there are two sides to every coin. And your viewpoint is but one side. I'm not sure if they have done any studies, but I would bet money that overall an artist would generate more revenue due to pirating because of increased exposure. So I've identified only one study conducted by an organization that wouldn't be a stakeholder (the ACM in this case), it noted a definitive profit delta. And btw, there is a HUGE difference between a band giving away their music and some dude pirating a band's music on a website. Surely that's clear. So maybe on some level we agree to disagree on this, but I've observed a dramatically different ratio of (a) downloads to buy and (b) downloads to ever buying, meaning that downloading a CD as you've pointed out in your own experience ("better than wasting $15") is not a 1:1 guarantee of a purchase simply because of lack of interest, etc. So of your 10 people who acquire the album illegally, is it safe to assume 100% return on investment? Is it safe to assume that 100% of them turn around and buy a CD? I highly doubt it. But for me what it comes down to-- would you walk into a record store, walk out with a CD without paying (and in full knowledge that you were breaking the law), listen to the CD and then either return it (presumably in an equally stealthy manner as your acquisition) or buy it? Would you say one day, "I want to try French food" (assuming of course you've never had it) and only pay at the restaurant if it turns out you actually like French food? And again, since we're doing something illegal, sneak out without paying? Digital media makes it easy to forget this is what's going on. And btw, in the interest of full disclosure: we all have our thresholds-- I've got 0 issue with bootlegs in the traditional "unauthorized concert recording" sense, so I realize any number of people (the lawyers for every major label for example) would term me a hypocrite. My issue only comes in the distribution of material available through legitimate venues without the consent of the artist. Another interesting topic of discussion-- how much do you think the music industry is responsible for the proliferation of piracy? When I was a kid, I used to copy albums on cassette for and from people all the time and yet there was no sharp decline in album sales (contrary to record industry prediction of that as well). And contrary to the belief that digital media makes this sort of sharing easier, it wasn't exactly hard to dub a cassette. But I also seem to remember the distance in price between blank media and an album on cassette wasn't as big as it is today. Maybe if the music industry was selling music at a less dramatic price, this wouldn't be happening.
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Post by Offering on Dec 4, 2009 8:58:24 GMT -5
Hi-jack away, Mike. It is nice to see some debate here!
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Post by aghemomehga on Jan 12, 2010 8:35:49 GMT -5
Being away from big city newstands for a while,missed this: www.jazzit.it/home-page/looks like a massive essay on zorn from the nov-dec 2009 issue of this italian jazz magazine tomorrow grab my hands on it I'll let you know ciao l.
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Post by zolap on Feb 13, 2010 5:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by Blansten on Feb 16, 2010 13:03:48 GMT -5
Hi, about this downloading debate--I was on the fence about the issue until I specifically started downloading some of Zorn's stuff.
I had made several attempts to get into his music over the last 15 years or so, but with over 200 albums in all different genres, I had no idea where to begin. It all seemed too daunting and impenetrable, and too expensive to just buy albums randomly. Obviously the 30-second samples on iTunes don't begin to shed light on what he's about.
Recently I'd heard good things about the Book of Angels series, so I downloaded a couple of those. Loved them, so I went further into his catalog, sampling albums from his whole career, educating myself as to what he was about and identifying the projects I liked and those I didn't. All downloaded illegally.
So now I've gone back and bought all the albums I liked and I've begun buying every new album he releases. I'm a new hardcore fan (and customer) of his, and I never would have become one without being able to download his music first.
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Post by HolgerregloH on Apr 16, 2010 8:47:05 GMT -5
A short interview&music clip from T.Yoshida talking about Zorns time in Japan in the mideighties and his interests in music and porn (minute 4,16): www.youtube.com/watch?v=P57vTmtN3GE
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Post by stefanodoug on Apr 19, 2010 7:51:01 GMT -5
Being away from big city newstands for a while,missed this: www.jazzit.it/home-page/looks like a massive essay on zorn from the nov-dec 2009 issue of this italian jazz magazine tomorrow grab my hands on it I'll let you know ciao l. I got informed about this article after it came out on the magazine and managed to grab a copy of it few weeks ago. The Jazzit main article presents Zorn's career split into various (numbered) phases placing each project/band he directed into them. Quite an extensive essay I must say (about 40 pages). Unfortunately it's all in italian. The only accessible part of it is the discography which provides a wide selection of the entire Zorn catalogue although not a complete view (but that would require an thouroughly dedicated issue:-) The initial/introducing section of this italian article reminded me of this very interesting portrait whose link I got from a dimeadozen torrent comment: blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=71408119&blogId=406731385This girl makes some keen insights about who is Zorn and what made him the musician we know.
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Post by HolgerregloH on Jun 22, 2010 23:56:49 GMT -5
Zorn & Country music? Yes! Sounds brilliant: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIE0kJb9eAUCharlie Daniels & Zorn with "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" from album "Confederate Corpses". Has anyone some informations about that CD? More songs feat. by Zorn?
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bouc
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by bouc on Jun 30, 2010 9:29:39 GMT -5
I translated the last paragraph of a text from La Presse, Montréal newspaper: On the Tzadik label, Zorn will have achieved another dozen albums in 2010, not counting new projects in the Masada Book of Angels serie, set in 2011 with those of Cyro Baptista, David Krakauer, or even Pat Metheny. As for his own composing, the two projects currently involving: Interzone is based on the work of William Burroughs and Brion Gysin; At Rebours is a concerto for cello and seven instruments.Pat Metheny ? Sound strange, no?
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Post by mikestack on Jun 30, 2010 10:56:35 GMT -5
Pat Metheny ? Sound strange, no? I had heard that Metheny Masada record was coming.... I kept meaning to mention it....
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Post by Offering on Jun 30, 2010 12:16:39 GMT -5
A Metheny Masada album would be welcome!
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Post by slntwtchr on Aug 12, 2010 7:17:55 GMT -5
actually wasn't 100% on where to post this one but... oz-mix.blogspot.com/Oz Fritz, has a great blog where he relates stories from his long career about various projects he's worked on. From Danzig to Zorn to whomever...for those that don't know, Oz was one of two main engineers for Bill Laswell during the 90s mostly. He still travels to do Bill's sound wherever possible. He truly has golden ears. Mick Harris and Zorn have both praised him as the 4th member of Painkiller. Anyway, his most recent post was sort of interesting and touched on something he and Zorn experienced together in Germany about 15 years back. Also has a nice pic of Zorn in front of what I'm assuming is part of his fabled record collection.
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Post by sarahv on Aug 12, 2010 9:56:10 GMT -5
Cool story.. thanks for posting!
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Post by sarahv on Aug 26, 2010 8:00:31 GMT -5
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