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Post by Offering on Aug 21, 2007 12:11:32 GMT -5
Your contributions welcome!
1. Amlux 2. Age Of 369 3. 24 Hours - A Day Of Seals 4. Timehunter 5. Bariken 6. 1930 7. Merzbeat 8. Cycle 9. Machinenstil 10. Turmeric
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Post by morakanabad on Aug 21, 2007 13:07:03 GMT -5
I've never been blown away by any of the guy's CDs. (Please don't take this as the common complaint that all of his stuff is the same; I got that, and a list of twenty albums that I should check out, complete with reasons why each one is very different from the others, from the last guy who tried talking Merzbow with me.) The few times that I've seen him live, though, he's been really impressive... I can't imagine sitting through one of his sets without earplugs, so it's definitely less a listening experience than a physical one, but he re-shapes the bloody room on you, moving from a rumbling in the guts up to a buzz in the sternum over time, etc. There's no way that any CD could ever re-create that without getting a body evicted.
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Post by Offering on Aug 21, 2007 14:14:59 GMT -5
I've never been blown away by any of the guy's CDs. (Please don't take this as the common complaint that all of his stuff is the same; I got that, and a list of twenty albums that I should check out, complete with reasons why each one is very different from the others, from the last guy who tried talking Merzbow with me.) The few times that I've seen him live, though, he's been really impressive... I can't imagine sitting through one of his sets without earplugs, so it's definitely less a listening experience than a physical one, but he re-shapes the bloody room on you, moving from a rumbling in the guts up to a buzz in the sternum over time, etc. There's no way that any CD could ever re-create that without getting a body evicted. Y'know, I actually agree with you to a certain extent. I do definitely have to be in the mood for Merzbow, and indeed any musics I guess. But when I crave Merzbow, nothing else will do! I havent had the pleasure of witnessing him live as of yet, but as soon as he visits these shores, Im there. I do however always play his music at a certain volume, as I do believe that it needs to be played LOUD, or on headphones, to "get inside" it....
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Post by Skuj on Aug 23, 2007 1:26:15 GMT -5
Well, I absolutely fucking love the Man and His Sound.
10 fav? Wow...a tough one, but today, I feel.....(I'll do it by DISC, rather than collections, etc.
1-Akasha Gulva 2-Merzbox #36. Can't remember the name, hahaha 3-Houjoue disc #6....live...again, it's late, too much wine, can't remember the name, hahaha. 4-Metamorphism 5-Hybrid Noisebloom 6-Venereology 7-Sphere 8-The one with yellow Hyper balls at the end. 9-Day Of Seals disc #4 10-SCSI Duck
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Post by Offering on Aug 23, 2007 3:54:10 GMT -5
Well, I absolutely fucking love the Man and His Sound. 10 fav? Wow...a tough one, but today, I feel.....(I'll do it by DISC, rather than collections, etc. 1-Akasha Gulva 2-Merzbox #36. Can't remember the name, hahaha 3-Houjoue disc #6....live...again, it's late, too much wine, can't remember the name, hahaha. 4-Metamorphism 5-Hybrid Noisebloom 6-Venereology 7-Sphere 8-The one with yellow Hyper balls at the end. 9-Day Of Seals disc #4 10-SCSI Duck ...the one with Yellow Hyper...is Pulse Demon I think? Good to see SCSI in there, a very underrated Merzdisc IMO........
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Post by Axel on Aug 23, 2007 9:53:59 GMT -5
Yes I'll agree SCSI Duck is underrated. I think Amlux is incredibly overrated. Age and Chant don't do it for me, they're like the half brother of later, bigger and better things. The Enclosure, Vratya, Storage, Ecobondage material appeals to me more from the 80s, due to it being unique and complete in itself, unsurpassed in its own quality. As for my top 10, not in any order:
Aqua Necromancer, Rattus Rattus, SCSI Duck, A Taste Of, Merzbear, Red Magnesia Pink, Pulse Demon, Oersted, Dharma, Springharp.
The next ten:
Minazo, Cycle, Space Metalizer, 1930, Sha Mo, Sphere, Cloud Cock (that's your #36 Skuj), Venereology, Zophorus, Animal Magnetism.
The next ten:
Bariken, Scene, Turmeric Disc 1, Merzzow, Houjoue Disc 3, Houjoue Disc 1, Door Open, Medamaya, Hybrid Noisebloom, Noisembryo.
And the next ten:
Turmeric Disc 2, Frog, Coma Berenices, Metamorphism, Exotic Apple, Electric Salad, Houjoue Disc 5, Collapse 12 Floors, FID Disc 1, Day of Seals Disc 2.
You get my point...?
* * *
I think a list of the ten worst could be easier to condense, so here's a crack at it:
Amlux, Merzbeat, EMU, Hard Lovin Man, Age 369, Chant 2, Dust of Dreams, Merzbird, Tentacle, Yoshinotsune.
Now that wasn't so easy! I don't really have many of the live ones, so couldn't put down an album like Noizhead on the 'worst' list, seeing as I haven't heard it, despite it often being mentioned in the league. Live Merzbow - the good ones are Houjoue disc 6, Synth Destruction, Akasha Gulva (though that's definitely an overrated disc), Mini Cycle is not too bad. As for the live show, seems now is a great time to check him out live. When I saw him in '04 in front of 2 laptops, the man didn't move at all for an hour. Now he gets up and gets into it, which goes with his change of setup/instrumentation.
Keep enjoying the 'bow y'all.
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Post by Offering on Aug 24, 2007 4:23:51 GMT -5
Yes I'll agree SCSI Duck is underrated. I think Amlux is incredibly overrated. Age and Chant don't do it for me, they're like the half brother of later, bigger and better things. The Enclosure, Vratya, Storage, Ecobondage material appeals to me more from the 80s, due to it being unique and complete in itself, unsurpassed in its own quality. As for my top 10, not in any order: Aqua Necromancer, Rattus Rattus, SCSI Duck, A Taste Of, Merzbear, Red Magnesia Pink, Pulse Demon, Oersted, Dharma, Springharp. The next ten: Minazo, Cycle, Space Metalizer, 1930, Sha Mo, Sphere, Cloud Cock (that's your #36 Skuj), Venereology, Zophorus, Animal Magnetism. The next ten: Bariken, Scene, Turmeric Disc 1, Merzzow, Houjoue Disc 3, Houjoue Disc 1, Door Open, Medamaya, Hybrid Noisebloom, Noisembryo. And the next ten: Turmeric Disc 2, Frog, Coma Berenices, Metamorphism, Exotic Apple, Electric Salad, Houjoue Disc 5, Collapse 12 Floors, FID Disc 1, Day of Seals Disc 2. You get my point...? * * * I think a list of the ten worst could be easier to condense, so here's a crack at it: Amlux, Merzbeat, EMU, Hard Lovin Man, Age 369, Chant 2, Dust of Dreams, Merzbird, Tentacle, Yoshinotsune. Now that wasn't so easy! I don't really have many of the live ones, so couldn't put down an album like Noizhead on the 'worst' list, seeing as I haven't heard it, despite it often being mentioned in the league. Live Merzbow - the good ones are Houjoue disc 6, Synth Destruction, Akasha Gulva (though that's definitely an overrated disc), Mini Cycle is not too bad. As for the live show, seems now is a great time to check him out live. When I saw him in '04 in front of 2 laptops, the man didn't move at all for an hour. Now he gets up and gets into it, which goes with his change of setup/instrumentation. Keep enjoying the 'bow y'all. Interesting. Merzbird, Amlux and Merzbeat all in your worst list, cos they are all great IMO....!!!I really dig Merzbeat, I think its a true original, for Merz himself and for music in general. Initially I thought it just got ragged on cos of his use of rythym, but alot of people seem to really hate it, which I find strange. Also Senmaida, gets the same treatment. re Live albums, Id agree with you. Live In Geneva was my most recent live acquisition, and it isnt anything to write home about IMO....
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Post by Offering on Aug 24, 2007 5:34:18 GMT -5
Also, I feel I should add something regarding Merz collaborations. I feel Merzdub with Jamie Saft and A Perfect Pain with Genesis P. Orridge rank among his best albums.......
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Post by Skuj on Aug 25, 2007 1:23:01 GMT -5
Damn! Age Of 369 / Chant 2 was my first ever Merzsperience, and I LOVE those discs. Not top 10....but compelling indeed. I always think of "metal on metal, in a construction yard, and an elephant" when I play those discs. Hahaha....they are wonderful, imho. Reconsider!
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Post by Skuj on Aug 25, 2007 1:27:07 GMT -5
Akasha Gulva is live, and imho is the most powerful Merzbow release ever. I bow to it's almightiness. I shrink and blush in it's presence. I sometimes feel like fainting. Sometimes I want to hurl. It's awesomeness is cleansing and revelatory....no two listens are the same, as with all Merz imho. But Akasha Gulva is very special.
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Post by Offering on Aug 25, 2007 4:14:19 GMT -5
Damn! Age Of 369 / Chant 2 was my first ever Merzsperience, and I LOVE those discs. Not top 10....but compelling indeed. I always think of "metal on metal, in a construction yard, and an elephant" when I play those discs. Hahaha....they are wonderful, imho. Reconsider! I agree. It wasnt my first Merzbow experience, ( that accolade goes to Pulse Demon ) but Ive always liked it. 369 has the edge of the two for me, but I do really like his early stuff. Music For Bondage Performance Vol 1 is great too, as is Batztoutai.... re Akasha, Ive heard nothing but good reports about it. Fucking hard to get hold of a copy in todays day and age however! There is a copy right now on e-Bay, so if it doesnt go too crazy high, I might take the plunge..... Also re live albums, Live Magnetism I found pretty good....
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Post by Axel on Aug 26, 2007 21:56:17 GMT -5
I know what y'all mean about first merzsperiences. One track that clicked for me was the 2nd track from the Merzbow/Napalmed split (ie. the first Merzbow track on that disc). I'd heard Merzbow long before hearing and getting into that track. But at the time I was into a lot of metal, and the slamming repeating rhythm of that track just hit the spot. So this may explain why I do like alot of the 'laptop' era. Which doesn't explain why I don't appreciate Merzbeat or Merzbird etc so much. Merzbird is just not technically very convincing - it has a good range and great potential, but just gets boring too readily. Same with say Yoshinotsune. I did like this album for a while, but it's just out of the same era where the no-as-good tracks stagnated. I used to love Animal Magnetism, but it has something of this tendency itself, so it's not in my top 10 anymore. Parts of 'Seals' have the same prob for me. SCSI on the other hand stands out from this era for its density and dynamism - a stronger sense of counterpoint being its main strength. The heavy sampling of 90s analog Merzbow as source material may help here, also giving it its rich sound quality. Compared with Merbeat/bird, I think Merzbuddha offers more convincing structures, and these can be heard fleshed out in the late-laptop discs like Sphere, Rattus, Scene. I just find it hard to really enjoy say the long track on Merzbird, when compared with something like Blizzard for Acousmonium from Houjoue which just has so much more in it. As for Senmaida vs Merzbeat, which Was raised, I think Senmaida is great stuff. If the rhythm in Merzbeat is baby steps, then by Senmaida, he's figured out how to use it to make fine long tracks. That disc would feature for me in my top 20 or so, EXCEPT for the annoying fact that it's tract 2 is Rice 4 in Houjoue - so both of those discs lose their uniqueness for me. Stupid move for MA. I don't like to overgeneralise, in the manner that people who hate Merzbeat will also hate Senmaida, etc, etc, because their rhythmic albums. I just base my tastes on strengths of tracks. Merzbeat was a starting point in some ways, but not really. He'd been doing that shit long before, especially sampling rock music effecivtly amongst noise in the early 90s as in the Box, and before that also in the collage manner - Scum Severances, etc. I reckon if Merzbeat was my first Merz album, I might appreciate it more, but maybe not - it's too stiff to enjoy as 'beat' music, or (meta) 'rock' music, and not involved enough to enjoy as Merzbow.
But going back to 'first experiences', I think these will always tip the scales in their favour. Of the early laptop discs, I spent most time w Merzzow and Ikebukuro Dada, so prefer them to Puroland, Frog, Merzbeat, Amlux. In terms of the 'city' theme of Amlux, I find it a lot stronger in Ikebukuro, but this could be to do w having that album from an earlier time to Amlux (and due to reading sooo many positive comments on Amlux and having high expectations unmatched, like it's nothing more than a clinically disposed loop album, without much momentum, except for maybe in track 2).
Another disc from that era which I think is really good is Fantail, except totally marred by the final live track. The material on the first half of an album is an example of how great and varied a Merzbow disc can be. It's perhaps the most pleasant mix of short, engaging and varied tracks in a row (better quality than Merzzow). But MA obviously is not interested in continuing down that line.
As for Akasha, I don't really hear much difference between that track and alot of other Japanese noise, like Incapacitants, etc. It is a pinnacle in the Merzbow catalog to be sure, as it is just a wall of noise for a long time. But aside from that novel aspect, it doesn't for me have the technical superiority of other Merzbow material from that same time - it doesn't come off as a kick arse Merzbow disc. It's more like observing some natural phenomenon, like staring at the ocean during a storm, which is a beautiful thing. But it's not a Pulse Demon or an Oersted. It is just another live Merzbow disc, with its lacking clarity of sound, excess of 'wash', surplus of boredom when compared w studio efforts, etc. Still one of the better ones, and some sort of 'peak' in terms of scale within the catalog.
As for collaborations... When you say to consider Merzdub as among one of Merzbow's best albums, is this based solely on the Merzbow material, or is this coloured by the contribution of Jamie Saft? Because MA obviously has nothing to do w those releases other than the cpl of single tracks he contributes. So, for instance, I don't mind the Sun Baked Snow Cave album, but it has nothing to do w Merzbow for me, because it's just Boris using at one stage a slightly noisier and more extended palette, So good for them. However the Merzbow factor is almost negligible, as it is so soft in the mix (their mix, not his). I personally don't like the Jamie Saft material on 'Dub, so I don't even really know what the Merz material on Merzdub is like - never listen to it. I recall it being fairly decent though, but obviously not enough to warrant revisitation. You can tell that MA isn't much of a collaborative spirit - all he cares about is his music - 'Merzbow is me, I am Merzbow' ... plans for the future are 'creating my music', etc. etc. The Genesis P collab is interesting, but Genesis P ain't my thing either. I like the Merz material on the Napalmed split as I mentioned, but that's a first experience bias. The second Merz track on that thoiugh is the closest thing to the end of Dharma that he's laid down, which is a unique moment in the early laptop days, so worthwhile just to hear more of that. The Merz tracks on the Bastard Noise split are great. But again, the Napalmed and BN cuts aren't up to it. The Gore Beyond Rectal Anarchy split is a fun disc, though nothing strong from Merzbow's side. Heheh..
Well it's only my opinion.. So thanks for reading.
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Post by Offering on Aug 26, 2007 23:46:44 GMT -5
I know what y'all mean about first merzsperiences. One track that clicked for me was the 2nd track from the Merzbow/Napalmed split (ie. the first Merzbow track on that disc). I'd heard Merzbow long before hearing and getting into that track. But at the time I was into a lot of metal, and the slamming repeating rhythm of that track just hit the spot. So this may explain why I do like alot of the 'laptop' era. Which doesn't explain why I don't appreciate Merzbeat or Merzbird etc so much. Merzbird is just not technically very convincing - it has a good range and great potential, but just gets boring too readily. Same with say Yoshinotsune. I did like this album for a while, but it's just out of the same era where the no-as-good tracks stagnated. I used to love Animal Magnetism, but it has something of this tendency itself, so it's not in my top 10 anymore. Parts of 'Seals' have the same prob for me. SCSI on the other hand stands out from this era for its density and dynamism - a stronger sense of counterpoint being its main strength. The heavy sampling of 90s analog Merzbow as source material may help here, also giving it its rich sound quality. Compared with Merbeat/bird, I think Merzbuddha offers more convincing structures, and these can be heard fleshed out in the late-laptop discs like Sphere, Rattus, Scene. I just find it hard to really enjoy say the long track on Merzbird, when compared with something like Blizzard for Acousmonium from Houjoue which just has so much more in it. As for Senmaida vs Merzbeat, which Was raised, I think Senmaida is great stuff. If the rhythm in Merzbeat is baby steps, then by Senmaida, he's figured out how to use it to make fine long tracks. That disc would feature for me in my top 20 or so, EXCEPT for the annoying fact that it's tract 2 is Rice 4 in Houjoue - so both of those discs lose their uniqueness for me. Stupid move for MA. I don't like to overgeneralise, in the manner that people who hate Merzbeat will also hate Senmaida, etc, etc, because their rhythmic albums. I just base my tastes on strengths of tracks. Merzbeat was a starting point in some ways, but not really. He'd been doing that shit long before, especially sampling rock music effecivtly amongst noise in the early 90s as in the Box, and before that also in the collage manner - Scum Severances, etc. I reckon if Merzbeat was my first Merz album, I might appreciate it more, but maybe not - it's too stiff to enjoy as 'beat' music, or (meta) 'rock' music, and not involved enough to enjoy as Merzbow. But going back to 'first experiences', I think these will always tip the scales in their favour. Of the early laptop discs, I spent most time w Merzzow and Ikebukuro Dada, so prefer them to Puroland, Frog, Merzbeat, Amlux. In terms of the 'city' theme of Amlux, I find it a lot stronger in Ikebukuro, but this could be to do w having that album from an earlier time to Amlux (and due to reading sooo many positive comments on Amlux and having high expectations unmatched, like it's nothing more than a clinically disposed loop album, without much momentum, except for maybe in track 2). Another disc from that era which I think is really good is Fantail, except totally marred by the final live track. The material on the first half of an album is an example of how great and varied a Merzbow disc can be. It's perhaps the most pleasant mix of short, engaging and varied tracks in a row (better quality than Merzzow). But MA obviously is not interested in continuing down that line. As for Akasha, I don't really hear much difference between that track and alot of other Japanese noise, like Incapacitants, etc. It is a pinnacle in the Merzbow catalog to be sure, as it is just a wall of noise for a long time. But aside from that novel aspect, it doesn't for me have the technical superiority of other Merzbow material from that same time - it doesn't come off as a kick arse Merzbow disc. It's more like observing some natural phenomenon, like staring at the ocean during a storm, which is a beautiful thing. But it's not a Pulse Demon or an Oersted. It is just another live Merzbow disc, with its lacking clarity of sound, excess of 'wash', surplus of boredom when compared w studio efforts, etc. Still one of the better ones, and some sort of 'peak' in terms of scale within the catalog. As for collaborations... When you say to consider Merzdub as among one of Merzbow's best albums, is this based solely on the Merzbow material, or is this coloured by the contribution of Jamie Saft? Because MA obviously has nothing to do w those releases other than the cpl of single tracks he contributes. So, for instance, I don't mind the Sun Baked Snow Cave album, but it has nothing to do w Merzbow for me, because it's just Boris using at one stage a slightly noisier and more extended palette, So good for them. However the Merzbow factor is almost negligible, as it is so soft in the mix (their mix, not his). I personally don't like the Jamie Saft material on 'Dub, so I don't even really know what the Merz material on Merzdub is like - never listen to it. I recall it being fairly decent though, but obviously not enough to warrant revisitation. You can tell that MA isn't much of a collaborative spirit - all he cares about is his music - 'Merzbow is me, I am Merzbow' ... plans for the future are 'creating my music', etc. etc. The Genesis P collab is interesting, but Genesis P ain't my thing either. I like the Merz material on the Napalmed split as I mentioned, but that's a first experience bias. The second Merz track on that thoiugh is the closest thing to the end of Dharma that he's laid down, which is a unique moment in the early laptop days, so worthwhile just to hear more of that. The Merz tracks on the Bastard Noise split are great. But again, the Napalmed and BN cuts aren't up to it. The Gore Beyond Rectal Anarchy split is a fun disc, though nothing strong from Merzbow's side. Heheh.. Well it's only my opinion.. So thanks for reading. No, thank you for the thorough post! To answer your last point first, I base my thoughts on Merzdub on the music itself, and how the whole thing sounds. I dont really tend to think of "who is doing what", in terms of instrumentation,etc, I just enjoy the music at face value. And, while it obvious that Saft is maybe contributing more to the record than MA, the end result is a UNIQUE record, and is something new, from either artist, in terms of sound, and ground broken. This is different in the case of A.P.P., with G. P. Orridge, as its plainly Merzbow with GPOs lyrical contributions on top, so while you know, on what level, whos doing what, its a unique and different experience. A real baffler in terms of neither artist showing their tru potential on a Merz collab is Maldoror, with Mike Patton. I like the disc, its alot of fun, but you cant but think this could have been a truly amazing piece of work......Oh, and Im still yet to hear Sun Baked Snow Cave, so cant comment. Same with the Bastard Noise split...Heard good reports about both though, and am intruiged.....( Gore Beyond Necropsy collab is fucking excellent IMO too, although that may be the old Grindhead in me coming out! )! I totally agree with your comments about Tract 2 / Rice 4, kinda baffling move.( I remember this being discussed on the Yahoo! Group )....I also agree that Amlux is a little too talked about, in the sense of it ( maybe ) being slightly over-hyped. This is Important Records fault more than MAs, sure, but I agree with you in the fact that its made out to be some collosus, and can be viewed as a let down from that POV. Also totally with you on your points about Fantail. The final track is a let down, and feels out of place for me. Otherwise, a great album. I feel the same with Dharma too. Cant remember the title of the piece offhand, but the long piece on that really upsets the rest of the album, IMO. ......I think Ive covered everything, but Ill probably read your post again and find more points to address, as its 5 in the morning here!
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Post by Axcel on Aug 27, 2007 0:49:31 GMT -5
Yeah I didn't bother w Maldoror, though I admit it did sound fun when I heard it, and I would've liked it just to play to all the Patton fans I know, just to show them a slightly more extreme version of his work. Anyway..
Shame you don't get into the last Dharma track, Frozen Guitar and Sunloop/7E... I think it's a fucking ripper - really great long track. I think of it in two halves, kinda like the last Bariken track for instance, which is also a great long track which I used to play heaps. The first half of that track is really solid early laptop Merzbow - not clinical or stodgy - and the second half is, well, quite unique as I mentioned - glacial, and a nice contrast to the earlier loopy textures. Like a black hole. Or a white version of that, something that sucks you in. Quite an achievement, considering its scale, length and effect, by any standard methinks.
Back to Amlux though, I think of track 2, which I do like, as a precursor to Sha Mo's title track, which I prefer. That is an example of a fine album with a good tasteful variety of tracks - just works really well - intro, big track, mellow interlude, big track, outro. Animal Mag is like this (with the short interlude, mellow outro) though not as well proportioned. In that album, track 4 was a surprise that took me a while to get into - it goes to town on the 'Bigfoot' kind of sound that can be heard on Ike Dada and Machinenstil and Tentacle before it. It's like a loopier version of the end of the long Dharma track, inviting a similar 'natural phenomenon' vibe as that Dharma track, and well Akasha as I mentioned above.
Incidently, Merzbow is a little slow of late. For a while (after the surprise of the 2 boxsets in '06 - Houjoue and Turmeric), I thought he was planning something bigger and better (an 8 or 10 CD set) which would explain his slower than usual release schedule for the last year or so. But I now think he's just slowing down a little altogether. In which case Houjoue + Turmeric WAS the big bubble. Still am keen, as always, to see where that sound is going.
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Post by Acel on Aug 27, 2007 1:16:18 GMT -5
I realised I put Dust of Dreams in my 10 worst... which I forgot to comment about though intended on doing so. Coming out the same time as Scene, those albums are quite similar in many respects. Scene just has a really strong for me 35 min track, while the Dust 35 min track pales somewhat in comparison, EVEN THOUGH I did like it lots and listen to it many times. It had a pretty, melancholic, almost folky atmosphere. But for me it's an example of an unedited gem - too verbose, even though all the elements are there (different sections, quite a distinctive ending riff, a fadeout at the end).
So that worst 10 list doesn't mean I don't like the albums or tracks on them - it was just a little test to think it up. For example I'd be interested to hear ppl's thoughts on EMU, a real bummer for me, but perhaps appreciated by some. The long Yoshinotsune track (#1 - Uchiwaka Kurama Iri) had a similar fate in my playing habits to the long Dust track - listened to many many times, but not for a long time. At first I enjoyed the slow, thoughtful and additive pace of the music (the cinematic build up perhaps). But now I can only hear it as long 3 blocks that don't masterfully link up. Because a track like Untitled for Vasteras does this SOO powerfully in 7 minutes, it does render Uchiwaka outmoded. Still I remember when I bought SCSI Duck from a store, the dude reckoned Yosh was his fav Merzbow album. Throwaway comment or not, I can see that track as being liked lots by certain listeners, as it offers a contrast to Merzbow's normal sonic patterning, by offering unusual amount of space.
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